Difference between pages "PlayStation 4 emulators" and "Talk:PlayStation 4 emulators"
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| − | + | The PS4's GPU is not secretive. In fact there are info on it from AMD themselves, specifically the Southern Islands architecture for the 7xxx series Radeon GPUs that would be almost exact like PS4's. There a team that works on this on GitHub but they have a long ways to go before its properly emulater | |
| − | + | :Uh. If you think information on the page is less accurate than it could be, add to it. No need to ask whether that's okay. [[User:Murrigan|Murrigan]] ([[User talk:Murrigan|talk]]) 19:04, 31 January 2015 (EST) | |
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| − | == | + | == Why does x86 architecture even need to be emulated on PCs which are already x86 to begin with? == |
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| − | + | I get that the x86 architecture is huge so even though it is well documented it would be difficult to emulate, but since PCs are already x86 anyway, why is there even a need to? Shouldn't all that needs to be emulated is the Orbis OS or whatever? And the Orbis OS is based on FreeBSD which is open source, so it would seem to me that this should be very easy to sort out if people would just approach this the easy way instead of trying to emulate an entire architecture which there is no need to do because PC is already that architecture anyway. And if I'm wrong then please tell me the reason why I'm wrong because I would like to know. | |
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| − | + | :I was in the process of rewriting the page before, but I'm just gonna share this early. Fail0verflow discovered [https://fail0verflow.com/blog/2016/console-hacking-2016-postscript/ the "secondary processor" '''is''' the primary system] (and even they are confused as hell about Sony's design). The PS4 is actually an ARM system-on-a-chip that runs its own OS-- Orbis OS-- and forwards games to run directly on the x86 processor, graphics card, and shared memory. That means for proper PS4 emulation, you would need to fake a game's computer ''on top'' of a faked operating system's computer, something even Dolphin has struggled with over the past few years (they've talked extensively on the blog about implementing Starlet at a higher-level). Complicating things even more is the memory. The CPU and GPU share it. On the IBM platform, they're dedicated (VRAM and SDRAM), separate components. [https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch10.html#hwvirt This writeup from the VirtualBox team] explains how they handle hardware abstraction on x86, explaining why virtualized software can be almost or just as fast as when it's natively run. Truth is, it could very well be possible to get games going quickly provided all the tools were in place to do that, but most people don't have 8 core CPUs, and it took ten years before PS3 emulation ever got anywhere for all of its own reasons. The system-on-a-chip discovery also explains why video capture and music playback on any game is possible.<br/>-[[User:FosterHaven|FosterHaven]] | |
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| − | + | ::Short answer... the x86 architecture is just the CPU. Even then there still are significant differences. The OS is just that, too - PS3 having a Linux OS was irrelevant to how easy it was to emulate. Everything else is custom down to the most basic details, and of course memory management, boot-up sequence, DRM, peripherals, graphical drivers (usually different from desktop PC versions) et caetera. | |
| − | : | ||
| − | + | ::So the PS4 (or the OG Xbox, or the Xbox One) is NOT just a repackaged PC. Just like the Wii isn't just a Mac just because both have a PowerPC CPU architecture. It is yet another console that has yet to be figured out from scratch. Granted, cases like what you wish for, do exist, like the Ouya, which is just a lazy Android modification, or the Sega Master System and the Game Gear, or apparently Android and iOS (if only Apple wasn't sabotaging those projects and buying off devs), so much that converting games between both works. This isn't one of these cases. [[User:Dipswitch|Dipswitch]] ([[User talk:Dipswitch|talk]]) 05:55, 3 November 2017 (EDT) | |
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| − | + | :::Okay. Thanks for that informative response. Even if it will take a long time, you gotta start somewhere, right? Good to know the first baby steps are being made. | |
| − | : | ||
| − | == | + | == CPU emulation == |
| − | + | You would never want to "emulate" the CPU in this case. You'd just use virtualization on an x86 host. That said, you CAN emulate x86. There's nothing more to figure out. QEMU already has code to emulate a modern i7 fully in software if you wanted to. Current PCs aren't fast enough to emulate at full PS4 CPU speed, not even close, but again you would just virtualize it. Therefore, you will have to watch out for emulators claiming to be real. A good example is the [https://guidestorm.com/scam-alert/ps4-emulator/ the fake PCSX4]. | |
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| − | + | The hard part is the rest of the PS4 system. | |
| − | + | :People have assumed that before with emulating the OG Xbox; that didn't work as well as they expected. [[User:Blakegripling ph|Blakegripling ph]] ([[User talk:Blakegripling ph|talk]]) 03:18, 7 October 2018 (EDT) | |
| − | == | + | == ADD ONTRONIX AND DCS4 OR WE'LL DESTROY THE VIEW SOURCE BUTTON!!! == |
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| − | [[ | + | It's advised to add it right frickin now! https://github.com/crohn64/Ontronix-ps4-emulator- https://github.com/abaska/Dcs4 |
| − | [[ | + | :DCS4 is only a joke program. And I don't know the legitimacy of Ontronix. --[[User:LilShootDawg|LilShootDawg]] ([[User talk:LilShootDawg|talk]]) 11:48, 27 October 2019 (EDT) |
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| − | [[ | + | == Change from "two" to "fifty" or we'll kill that view source button!!! == |
| − | [[ | + | |
| − | [[ | + | https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/fta3ql/spine_still_alive/ |
| + | |||
| + | == About PCSX4 == | ||
| + | |||
| + | It should be clarified somewhere why PCSX4 is not in the comparative because the page of this supposed emulator appears as the first result when searching for "PlayStation 4 emulation" in Google (this page appears in second place), which could confuse those who do not know much about it. As a curiosity, at most PCSX4 is a frontend for PSNow as I was finding out. | ||
| + | |||
| + | Regarding the other projects, Spine hasn't published anything for a year and the Reddit post is 6 months old. I don't know if the project is still active, but it could be considered to be stopped until further notice. PS4Delta has no commits since January (if within 6 months it does not have new commits or a release then it could be considered dead) and the rest have not had activity in months either but it is still early to determine their status.--[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.78|173.245.54.78]] 03:52, 24 October 2020 (UTC) | ||
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| + | :You could add an overview section and mention PCSX4 in there. The Spine dev posted on Reddit about a month ago about progress being made, most of these projects are not being worked on in public currently. -[[User:Jpx|Jpx]] ([[User talk:Jpx|talk]]) 12:46, 24 October 2020 (UTC) | ||
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| + | == New Spine version == | ||
| + | |||
| + | A new version has been made available through Twitter, link: https://twitter.com/notzecoxao/status/1436397396154626048 | ||
| + | |||
| + | == RPCS4 Still Active == | ||
| + | |||
| + | Please mark RPCS4 as active, I can't edit the PS4 page, here's the reference to add if it's necessary, thanks. | ||
| + | https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/ppffdy/rpcs4_ps4_emulation_preview_of_current_progress/ | ||
Revision as of 16:51, 21 September 2021
The PS4's GPU is not secretive. In fact there are info on it from AMD themselves, specifically the Southern Islands architecture for the 7xxx series Radeon GPUs that would be almost exact like PS4's. There a team that works on this on GitHub but they have a long ways to go before its properly emulater
- Uh. If you think information on the page is less accurate than it could be, add to it. No need to ask whether that's okay. Murrigan (talk) 19:04, 31 January 2015 (EST)
Contents
- 1 Why does x86 architecture even need to be emulated on PCs which are already x86 to begin with?
- 2 CPU emulation
- 3 ADD ONTRONIX AND DCS4 OR WE'LL DESTROY THE VIEW SOURCE BUTTON!!!
- 4 Change from "two" to "fifty" or we'll kill that view source button!!!
- 5 About PCSX4
- 6 New Spine version
- 7 RPCS4 Still Active
Why does x86 architecture even need to be emulated on PCs which are already x86 to begin with?
I get that the x86 architecture is huge so even though it is well documented it would be difficult to emulate, but since PCs are already x86 anyway, why is there even a need to? Shouldn't all that needs to be emulated is the Orbis OS or whatever? And the Orbis OS is based on FreeBSD which is open source, so it would seem to me that this should be very easy to sort out if people would just approach this the easy way instead of trying to emulate an entire architecture which there is no need to do because PC is already that architecture anyway. And if I'm wrong then please tell me the reason why I'm wrong because I would like to know.
- I was in the process of rewriting the page before, but I'm just gonna share this early. Fail0verflow discovered the "secondary processor" is the primary system (and even they are confused as hell about Sony's design). The PS4 is actually an ARM system-on-a-chip that runs its own OS-- Orbis OS-- and forwards games to run directly on the x86 processor, graphics card, and shared memory. That means for proper PS4 emulation, you would need to fake a game's computer on top of a faked operating system's computer, something even Dolphin has struggled with over the past few years (they've talked extensively on the blog about implementing Starlet at a higher-level). Complicating things even more is the memory. The CPU and GPU share it. On the IBM platform, they're dedicated (VRAM and SDRAM), separate components. This writeup from the VirtualBox team explains how they handle hardware abstraction on x86, explaining why virtualized software can be almost or just as fast as when it's natively run. Truth is, it could very well be possible to get games going quickly provided all the tools were in place to do that, but most people don't have 8 core CPUs, and it took ten years before PS3 emulation ever got anywhere for all of its own reasons. The system-on-a-chip discovery also explains why video capture and music playback on any game is possible.
-FosterHaven
- Short answer... the x86 architecture is just the CPU. Even then there still are significant differences. The OS is just that, too - PS3 having a Linux OS was irrelevant to how easy it was to emulate. Everything else is custom down to the most basic details, and of course memory management, boot-up sequence, DRM, peripherals, graphical drivers (usually different from desktop PC versions) et caetera.
- So the PS4 (or the OG Xbox, or the Xbox One) is NOT just a repackaged PC. Just like the Wii isn't just a Mac just because both have a PowerPC CPU architecture. It is yet another console that has yet to be figured out from scratch. Granted, cases like what you wish for, do exist, like the Ouya, which is just a lazy Android modification, or the Sega Master System and the Game Gear, or apparently Android and iOS (if only Apple wasn't sabotaging those projects and buying off devs), so much that converting games between both works. This isn't one of these cases. Dipswitch (talk) 05:55, 3 November 2017 (EDT)
- Okay. Thanks for that informative response. Even if it will take a long time, you gotta start somewhere, right? Good to know the first baby steps are being made.
CPU emulation
You would never want to "emulate" the CPU in this case. You'd just use virtualization on an x86 host. That said, you CAN emulate x86. There's nothing more to figure out. QEMU already has code to emulate a modern i7 fully in software if you wanted to. Current PCs aren't fast enough to emulate at full PS4 CPU speed, not even close, but again you would just virtualize it. Therefore, you will have to watch out for emulators claiming to be real. A good example is the the fake PCSX4.
The hard part is the rest of the PS4 system.
- People have assumed that before with emulating the OG Xbox; that didn't work as well as they expected. Blakegripling ph (talk) 03:18, 7 October 2018 (EDT)
ADD ONTRONIX AND DCS4 OR WE'LL DESTROY THE VIEW SOURCE BUTTON!!!
It's advised to add it right frickin now! https://github.com/crohn64/Ontronix-ps4-emulator- https://github.com/abaska/Dcs4
- DCS4 is only a joke program. And I don't know the legitimacy of Ontronix. --LilShootDawg (talk) 11:48, 27 October 2019 (EDT)
Change from "two" to "fifty" or we'll kill that view source button!!!
https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/fta3ql/spine_still_alive/
About PCSX4
It should be clarified somewhere why PCSX4 is not in the comparative because the page of this supposed emulator appears as the first result when searching for "PlayStation 4 emulation" in Google (this page appears in second place), which could confuse those who do not know much about it. As a curiosity, at most PCSX4 is a frontend for PSNow as I was finding out.
Regarding the other projects, Spine hasn't published anything for a year and the Reddit post is 6 months old. I don't know if the project is still active, but it could be considered to be stopped until further notice. PS4Delta has no commits since January (if within 6 months it does not have new commits or a release then it could be considered dead) and the rest have not had activity in months either but it is still early to determine their status.--173.245.54.78 03:52, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
- You could add an overview section and mention PCSX4 in there. The Spine dev posted on Reddit about a month ago about progress being made, most of these projects are not being worked on in public currently. -Jpx (talk) 12:46, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
New Spine version
A new version has been made available through Twitter, link: https://twitter.com/notzecoxao/status/1436397396154626048
RPCS4 Still Active
Please mark RPCS4 as active, I can't edit the PS4 page, here's the reference to add if it's necessary, thanks. https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/ppffdy/rpcs4_ps4_emulation_preview_of_current_progress/
